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September 09, 2007

Comments

brighterthanyou

Are you completely bonkers, you prat, or only on Sundays?

Cristina

Very well said. Couldn't agree more.

Cristina

Just making myself clear here. I totally agree on all points made by Tapestry, not with the reader's comment posted before mine.

trannyfattyacid

The only problem with your theory is that, as far as I know, no-one other that the McCann friend Jane Tanner saw anyone unusual that night.

In fact, all of the witnesses contradict the version of events given by the McCann party on just about every detail.

tapestry

transfattyacid. can you give the details?

without detail, it is hard to refute or agree with what you are saying.

trannyfattyacid

For instance, Jane Tanner claims that she saw a man carrying a child. This was supposedly at the time when Gerry McCann was outside the apartment talking to Jeremy Wilkins.

Yet Mr Wilkins says that he saw neither the man with the child, or indeed Jane Tanner.

There is also a question mark surrounding the checking of the children. According to the McCann's and their friends this happened evry 15 minutes or so.

Najova Chekaya, a fitness instructor, was invited to join them at around 9.30. And she says that she does not recall anyone leaving the table until 10pm when Kate McCann raised the alarm. Though in account the police are believed to be using (which I assume is based on the testimony from the McCann's and their friends) at least three members of the group left or were absent from the table for various reasons.

The statement by Ms Chekaya also appears to be backed up by a barman and other people in the Tapas bar that night also say that the coming and goings from the table were not as the McCann's report.

Which would suggest that the police have been building their case on these witness statements.

Though it does have to be said, that if they didn't leave the table as frequently as the McCann's claim (for reasons of trying to rebutt accusations of reckless neglect), it would give more credence to the abduction story, as it would have offered any kidnappers a larger windown of opportunity... but that is not McCann's story... or the official line being pushed by the British media.

It should also be kept in mind that in some versions of the story, Gerry McCann was fiddling with the shutters prior to the conversation with Jeremy Wilkins. These same shutters were later to play a role in the abduction story, supposedly they had been jemmied in order to gain access to the apartment. Though the Portugese police who first arrived claim that this was unlikely because it would have drawn too much attention to a potential intruder. And would make no sense since the door was unlocked (which as far as I know is not something that is disputed).

feel free to refute or agree :)

trannyfattyacid

For instance, Jane Tanner claims that she saw a man carrying a child. This was supposedly at the time when Gerry McCann was outside the apartment talking to Jeremy Wilkins.

Yet Mr Wilkins says that he saw neither the man with the child, or indeed Jane Tanner.

There is also a question mark surrounding the checking of the children. According to the McCann's and their friends this happened evry 15 minutes or so.

Najova Chekaya, a fitness instructor, was invited to join them at around 9.30. And she says that she does not recall anyone leaving the table until 10pm when Kate McCann raised the alarm. Though in account the police are believed to be using (which I assume is based on the testimony from the McCann's and their friends) at least three members of the group left or were absent from the table for various reasons.

The statement by Ms Chekaya also appears to be backed up by a barman and other people in the Tapas bar that night also say that the coming and goings from the table were not as the McCann's report.

Which would suggest that the police have been building their case on these witness statements.

Though it does have to be said, that if they didn't leave the table as frequently as the McCann's claim (for reasons of trying to rebutt accusations of reckless neglect), it would give more credence to the abduction story, as it would have offered any kidnappers a larger windown of opportunity... but that is not McCann's story... or the official line being pushed by the British media.

It should also be kept in mind that in some versions of the story, Gerry McCann was fiddling with the shutters prior to the conversation with Jeremy Wilkins. These same shutters were later to play a role in the abduction story, supposedly they had been jemmied in order to gain access to the apartment. Though the Portugese police who first arrived claim that this was unlikely because it would have drawn too much attention to a potential intruder. And would make no sense since the door was unlocked (which as far as I know is not something that is disputed).

feel free to refute or agree :)

Sheila

Shouldn't the Mom have been concerned when she ran off to report the missing child that the perpertrator might return and grab the sleeping twins ?

Alonzo Boardman

How many people have rented that car from the time of abduction to the time the car was tested? Could an abductor have used the same car as the parents?

Alonzo Boardman

How many people have rented that car from the time of abduction to the time the car was tested? Could an abductor have used the same car as the parents?

Alonzo Boardman

How many people have rented that car from the time of abduction to the time the car was tested? Could an abductor have used the same car as the parents?

tapestry

Alonzon, British police say that DNA would have been on the soft toy which Mrs McCann carried everywhere.

Sheila - I don't know about that one - if it's true or not. If it was, I guess that abduction was the last thing on her mind to begin with.

tapestry

transfattyacid - see ww.dizzythinks.net 'it's all a bit baffling really' for another view

Alex

The whole paedophile story is so incredibly unlikely, it has been from the very beginning. Besides the fact that the Dutroux case is an rare exception in Europe also the cicumstances were completely different. Just as circumstances of most cases where children are assaulted by paedophiles. What ever happened, the McCann's are the key to the whole story.

tapestry

There is a denial by authorities across the EU of the threat from paedophile abduction. As I say there are pictures of missing children peppered across Brussels. Keep your head buried in the sand if you like, Alex. The Police turn a blind eye, so it's not surprising that others do the same.

How do you know that Madeleine is not being held by a peadophile circuit right now - probably in another country?

Why deny? Why not get out there and break open the trade in abducted children? Or is it considered too dangerous to take on organised crime?

Alex

I'm out there taking on on organised crime. I have worked cases of paedophile child abuse. It's awful and horrible and makes you sick to your stomach. So I know from a professional background what I'm talking about.
That does not mean that I know what happened in this case. But I do know what the average threat, the profiles, the risks and odds are and what is likely and what is not.

Do you have any real professional experience or are you just reading the internet and thinking that the 'truth' can be found on websites ? It appears to me that you are just blogging on topics that 'stir' you, without having the slightest clue what you're actually talking about.

tapestry

Experience - sadly - of knowing people involved from both sides - but not professional. The profile of child abuse in the UK is not the same as in other countries where abduction is a bigger problem. I guess my experience of this comes from other countries which is what make me think that Brits don't get it as to the kind of environment that probably exists in Portugal. I am suspicious of so-called experts who think they know it all.

Alex

I'm mostly suspicious of bloggers that happen to have knowledge on any subject they touch. Could you substantiate any of the various claims you make in your post and subsequent comments on this issue?

from tapestry - I cannot post from where I am _ manchester airport - for some reason. i'll try editing yours.

theory by definition is not proof. Theories are designed to be measured against evidence - both evidence that is available now and evidence that comes available.

a theory could be proved wrong or it could be proved right.

it is wrong not to form theories until they are provable, as possible explanations for events can be overlooked die to lack of courage or imagination. Theroising is the start point of the process of solving a problem.

at this stage my theory cannot be disproved. that is sufficient.

Alex

That is a very convenient (and classic conspiracy theorists') defense: 'i do not need to present any facts, as my theory cannot be disproved'.

However, it is not sufficient at all. Particularly not as there are many facts on this subject available which you choose to ignore while at the same time you make very strong claims.

Like for example that "Paedophile rings are organised and criminal. The Police know how dangerous they are and either expect pay-offs for covering their tracks, or more likely fear a bullet in the back if they take any steps to apprehend them." - This is a very serious accusation and you cannot walk away from that with some simple philosophical remarks about 'theories' that cannot be disproved.

The same applies to your claim that "The profile of child abuse in the UK is not the same as in other countries where abduction is a bigger problem." - where did you get this wisdom?

And you elaborate on Belgium and project this picture on Portugal. These are two completely different countries, the only ting they have in common from a UK perspective is that they are located 'at the other side'.
But what makes you sure that these countries can be compared when it comes to abducted and missing children?
And yes, Belgium was traumatised by the Dutroux case. But do the Belgian statistics on child abduction, child abuse and missing children differ significantly from UK or for that matter from EU wide statistics on this subject?

In conclusion, if you want to pose a 'theory' please take the time to inform yourself appropriately first on the subject. Otherwise you're just babbling.

REPLY
I still cannot post - this time at a middle eastern location.

OK then, take the views expressed in The Telegraph yesterday.

As a rule countries don't take out advertising when discussing their paedophile problems, and statistical information is hardly likely to help you in countries that suppress the whole subject. You do seem to be assuming an Anglocentric viewpoint where rationality is assumed. Other cultures don't admit to paedophile events. Portugal actually doesn't have any paedophile laws.

Telegraph - As Mrs McCann succinctly put it before being named as a suspect. "the Police don't want a murder in POrtugal and all the publicity about them not having paedophile laws here, so they're blaming us."

As in the Chamberlain case, there is no body to suggest that murder has taken place. Child abductiopn sadly is far more grotesque. The child is captured and used for a long period of time - often years - and is then disposed of as they obviously cannot ever be allowed to walk free. It is easier for a mother to imagine her child dead than to believe the awful truth of paedophile child abduction.

It seems that Alex prefers not to comtempltae the most likely situation here as well.

The McCanns cannot prove abduction, but their daughter has gone. A person was seen carrying a child in a blanket at the relevant time. It was reported to the Police. Nothing was done.

Professionals havew to deal with proof and legal procedure. As a member of the public I am entitled to state what I know and believe. I stand by my statements of yesterday.

I present many facts. My theory holds water against the known facts. Obviously proof requires more information, but from what we're being told, I personally have no doubt that this is an abduction. I'm delighted that others also form their own different opinions. But I am not persuaded by you to alter my mind.

The Portuguese Police are behaving in a despicable manner, amd the Portuguese need to open their minds to the operations of paedophiles.

Gabriel

There are many people who are in denial of this problem of pedophiles and child trafficking. There are lots of cases, it is a reality but if politicians and the police are involved then nothing will be done. It is easy for the people to turn a blind a eye. If you hide the dust under the carpet you can pretend that everything is clean. What a disgusting society!

Tapestry

It's our job to make sure the Police and governments cannot hush these things up, and accuse the victims as a way to get rid of them.

Blogs are often the only way the truth comes out as news channels (MSM) are unwilling to offer views in direct conflict with Police assertions, or government departments. The public are kept in the dark.

jamal

26-sept-2007
well, I took this case easy, since I thought it would just be one of those kidnap cases.. and then a couple of days back i took it a bit serious..
first, we should think why would some one kidnap or abduct a four year girl,,, the first reason would be that some one wants a bulk ransom from the parents of Madeleine, if they were to be rich,which i guess is not yet been asked. And finally the strong reason, the benefit attainment to someone or some people from from her own cast. they could be family members, or the neighbors themselves. If we think deep, we would see that no one would ever abduct a kid who's four for no reason until the person/the group is a real psychopath and really very ill minded.
I dont think, she can be traded to the other world, since the porteguese police are aware of the fact, and security is been marked in the Airport.

Tapestry

sax-player-69, what a wonderful address....i think.

gabriel in Ireland

Its hard to see how an abductor would enter by the patio doors, scoop up the child without waking or alarming her, and then jump 4 feet to the ground out the window,still olding a sleeping child...as is claimed by the parents..oh yeah and just remembering to leave the childs toy on a ledge that could only be reached by an adult. The child does not scream or wake apparently, and no one apart from a close friend of the parents sees anyone carrying a kid, and her description which is good on footwear, but when it comes to the face appears to be an egg with a sprout of hair (literally, hence this sighting is contemptuously referred to by some as the 'Eggman'). By the way,this was a child who was reputed to wake quite a lot at night and go wandering around , nor do the twins wake up.One of the parents at one time claimed that on one of the 'regular checks' it was noticed that the bed was empty, but just assumed that Madeleine had gone off to the other bed but never checked.Whatever about the Portuguese police, one has to ask questions about parents who leave a three year old and two babies asleep in an apparently unlocked apartment to go to a meal 170 yards away and out of direct view of the Restaurant, an apartment that has free access from a main road at that.What parents of young children have ever been so 'lucky' as to have kids who sleep the sleep of the just all the way through til morning? With three young ones it would seem like an unlikely night indeed to me, to return and find them all sleeping away just as you had left them...Unless of course you had another reason for thinking it likely they would sleep through your absence?? Tapestry your faith in the McCann's version of what happened on May 3rd is admirable, but I suspect there is much more than meets the eye in this sad tale.

Tapestry

An abductor would have sedated Madeleine. 4 feet isn't much of an obstacle.

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